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Upgrading to Electronic Ignition

The Early A-Body Forum » General Discussions » Archive through March 25, 2007 » Upgrading to Electronic Ignition users admin

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Archive through June 15, 2006Menko20 6-15-06  8:43 am
Archive through June 21, 200664ragtop20 6-21-06  7:00 am
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64ragtop
Senior Member
Post Number: 89
Registered: 1-2006


Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 7:02 am   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)   
American poet John Godfrey Saxe (1816-1887) based the following poem on a fable which was told in India many years ago.

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant
(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation
Might satisfy his mind

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side,
At once began to bawl:
“God bless me! but the Elephant
Is very like a wall!”

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, “Ho! what have we here
So very round and smooth and sharp?
To me ’tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant
Is very like a spear!”

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands,
Thus boldly up and spake:
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a snake!”

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
“What most this wondrous beast is like
Is mighty plain,” quoth he;
“ ‘Tis clear enough the Elephant
Is very like a tree!”

The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: “E’en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most;
Deny the fact who can
This marvel of an Elephant
Is very like a fan!”

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail
That fell within his scope,
“I see,” quoth he, “the Elephant
Is very like a rope!”

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion
Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right,
And all were in the wrong!

Moral:

So oft in theologic wars,
The disputants, I ween,
Rail on in utter ignorance
Of what each other mean,
And prate about an Elephant
Not one of them has seen!
65valiant
Advanced Member
Post Number: 38
Registered: 12-2001


Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 7:50 am   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)   
Neil. See attached pic.My AFB has no idle vacuum at the "ported vacuum" port. You may have your idle screw turned in so far to keep your motor idling properly that the throttle plates inside the carb are uncovering this port and is already providing advance. My guess would be that when your idling,stalling and rough running problems are sorted out,you will be able to reduce your idle speed setting and this will then not uncover the vacuum advance port.

Just some thoughts...
Darwin/Victoria BC/canada
'65 Cdn Valiant Custom 100 'vert
Slant 6/factory A833

'67 Dart GT 'vert
273/904
Neilb
Administrator
Post Number: 500
Registered: 12-2001


Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 8:56 am   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)   
64Ragtop: your poem is so true!

65valiant: so you're saying the vacuum port on the right of the carb (circled above in white and labelled ported vacuum) is not constant, instead it's controlled by the idle screw, or the speed at which the motor is idling. And if/when I reduce the idle speed, it will no longer have any vacuum at idle?

I did have it connected to the manifold, but put it back to the carb. I can always move it back again as I've left my McGyver set of brass connectors in the manifold with a rubber cap over them in case I want to move it back. (see photo)

port
'65 Barracuda Formula S
Ottawa, Ontario
http://cuda.enbcom.com
64ragtop
Senior Member
Post Number: 90
Registered: 1-2006


Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 10:55 am   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)   
Neil, you're closing in on it! A ported vacuum connection gets its vacuum from a location right above the throttle plate. At idle, the engine should run on the carburetor's "idle circuit" and the throttle plate should be closed. Thus no vacuum at the ported connection. However, while the engine is running on the carb's idle circuit, _manifold_ vacuum will be high. So, it's pretty plain that different things will happen to the distributors vacuum advance, depending on which connection it goes to. But that's only true if the "ported" connection is performing correctly, and yours is not (yet).

What I think you need to do at this point is look at the throttle plate with the engine _off_. I think you will see that it is slightly open. It _should_ be closed! Again, I say, I'm no AFB guru, but I believe, with the engine idling as it is set now, you should be able to back off the idle _speed_ screw till the engine wants to stall, and tweak the idle _mixture_ screws to restore the idle. The idle speed screw is the one that bears on the cam incorporated with the linkage on the side of the carb. The idle mixture screws are on each side ot the large PCV hose outlet,and have small springs on them. For best performance, they will need to be set equally, but that's another proceedure. For now, just tweak them by a tiny bit as you back off the idle speed screw by a tiny bit. Go slow and easy because the idle mixture adjustment will take a few seconds to have an effect. Somewhere there is a ballpark setting for those two idle mixture screws, which would help, but I don't have it handy.

(Message edited by 64ragtop on June 21, 2006)

(Message edited by 64ragtop on June 21, 2006)
65valiant
Advanced Member
Post Number: 39
Registered: 12-2001


Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 12:59 pm   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)   
Neil...In pic 1 below,the idle vac port is not exposed,so no vac will flow, at idle, to the vacuum advance diaphragm on the distributor.

In pic 2 below,the idle speed is set too high (throttle plates open excessively) and the idle vac port is open to manifold vacuum. I think with the way your engine is running these days,the throttle blades are too far open so as to expose the normally-closed idle vac port to vacuum, which is why you are getting the same vacuum readings from both ports.

Let me know if I'm off base here.

Darwin/Victoria BC/canada
'65 Cdn Valiant Custom 100 'vert
Slant 6/factory A833

'67 Dart GT 'vert
273/904
64ragtop
Senior Member
Post Number: 91
Registered: 1-2006


Wednesday, June 21, 2006 - 1:22 pm   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)   
Pictures are worth thousands of words, Darwin! That's what i was trying to _say_. Thanks for _showing_ it. Your picture 1 shows the effect of the correct adjustment of the idle speed screw. The trick from there is to adjust the idle mixture screws so the engine will idle, and further so that both idle mixture screws are set the same. A caution here: Do Not Screw The Idle Mixture Screws In Too Hard Or You Will Mess Up The Seats!

We're closin in on it, gang! Can ya feel the tension? Can ya Feel the LOOOvveeee???
Neilb
Administrator
Post Number: 501
Registered: 12-2001


Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 10:55 pm   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)   
Thanks for all the love guys.....b u t

Switching back to my old carb, which I know worked pretty good didn't fix anything. My compression check showed the two rear driver side cylinders to be at 90 psi, and the two front ones to be at 110 psi. Doesn't this suggest a bad head gasket?

Tonight, along with my friends help, we decided to find out.

engine tear down
'65 Barracuda Formula S
Ottawa, Ontario
http://cuda.enbcom.com
Neilb
Administrator
Post Number: 502
Registered: 12-2001


Thursday, June 29, 2006 - 11:05 pm   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)   
Here's what my engine looks like when it's sitting on a shelf!

engine on a shelf!
'65 Barracuda Formula S
Ottawa, Ontario
http://cuda.enbcom.com
Menko
Senior Member
Post Number: 52
Registered: 1-2006


Friday, June 30, 2006 - 8:46 am   Edit PostDelete PostView Post/Check IPMove Post (Moderator/Admin Only)   
So...its 340 time!!?? =)